TRANSCRIPT OF CHEN TAO'S MARCH 12, 1998, PRESS CONFERENCE
IN GARLAND, TX
Press Conference Interview of Hon-Ming Chen, leader of "God's Salvation
Church," or the "True Way", as they prefer to be known. Mr. Richard Liu
was interpreter for Mr. Chen. Between a dozen and twenty reporters and
television crew were present, including James Walker, President, and Timothy
Oliver, Publications Editor, of Watchman Fellowship.
In the transcript below, we have no means of identifying the various
news reporters, so in most cases they are referred to simply as Reporter.
Richard Liu: (garbled) ".make some clarification, and
to correct some misunderstanding and misrepresentation by some of the mass
media. Teacher Chen today want to give this interview to you. If you got
any questions, especially concerning the day March 31st, if
you can just give your quick questions then I'll do the interpretation,
Teacher Chen will give the answers. Thank you."
Reporter: "Richard, there's been some concern, some people expressing
concern, that not only may this group harm itself but it may harm other
people in this neighborhood. When you hear things like that-"
Richard Liu: "Yes, we read in article yesterday, which is 'Why
God is an Alien.' But Teacher Chen-we want to make clear that actually
an alien is incompatible to the Supreme Being, I mean the God. Actually
the alien is very low in the spiritual level, compared to God. Some people
might be self-arrogant, or some people might be self-depreciated, because
they are so afraid of being invaded by the extra-terrestrial beings or
by aliens. But actually it is the time operated and conducted by God. God
takes charge of the whole universe. And God certainly won't allow this
to happen. To be invaded by the alien, by the extra-terrestrial beings,
is nothing but the fantasy, or the imaginations influenced by scientific
Reporter: "What about the concern that the "God's Salvation Church"
members may harm themselves, or harm others, around here?"
Richard Liu: "We have been reiterating the point, either in our-in
the book which we speak with it, or in the messages which we receive from
God, God prohibits us from killing even an ant, let alone doing the harm
to other people or to ourselves. Since God is coming to the earth some
people might be afraid that it might be the invasion from the alien. (garbled)
you are turn on the television in every household on March 25th
and that is actually imaginable, and unusual in the ordinary sense. Because,
but if people think about the omnipotence of God, think about the great,
great power of God it is not impossible. And maybe that is another reason
Reporter: "Richard, what happens if on the 25th there's
no television reception, God does not appear on channel 18 or any channel,
what happens after that, will you stay until the 31st?"
Richard Liu: "If people have abundant imaginations, why not even
try to think of God as Superman as you see in movies. And God coming to
the earth is not to judge on trial people but to help people, to save people."
Reporter: "Let's go back to the question, What if God does not
appear on Channel 18 on the 25th of March, what then?"
Richard Liu: "If it happens and it doesn't turn out to be true
you can just take it as nonsense. Since this is the instruction given by
God so it is the divine God; everyone should pay attention to these messages.
But don't make any negative extrapolations or wild guesses.negative assumptions."
(small plane overhead drowning out sound).
Reporter: "Can I ask how you received the message that God was
coming to us on the 31st and then also, what is it that's going
to happen after that; so he arrives on earth and then what happens in the
months after that, and what's the purpose?"
Richard Liu: "The message of God coming to the earth was received
by Teacher Chen back in 1993. And the exact date of God's coming to the
world was received in last February. And Teacher Chen also received a message,
learning about the true God, the true, the only, the only God of this universe,
and it also justified by himself. Try not to give yourself any wild speculations
about His coming, and try not to believe in what is stated in some parts
of the Bible, that God comes to the world to put people in judgement or
to put people on trial. Because on the second point we have made it clear
that God's coming, the reason why God is coming to the earth is for, is
to save all of the living beings on the earth. It is hoped that every one
of us can give ourselves a chance for our physical bodies and first our
souls which is in eternity and try to cut off all those fantasies about
being persecuted or being crucified."
An approaching garbage truck was making it difficult to hear during
some of the above.
Reporter: "What's going to happen to Mr. Chen on the 31st?
Is anything going to happen to him?"
At this point the garbage truck drowned all other sound on our tape.
Mr. Liu continued to speak a few moments more, then stopped while we all
waited for the garbage truck to move far enough away that it would not
prevent recording. There was, naturally enough, some lapse in thought,
Mr. Liu apparently picking up on another note than the question above.
Richard Liu: "God comes to the world, and that means that in
1999 there will be the great tribulation happen. That means that the great
tribulation of nuclear war, which means the annihilation. And this annihilation
is not limited only on the earth, but also on all other planets in the
galaxy. The earth which we are inhabiting is the third dimension world.
But in the galaxy where the earth is situated there is also the fourth
dimensional world, the fifth dimensional world, and there are also living
beings in those dimensions. In all of these dimensional worlds there are
going to be great tribulation of annihilation. God comes to the world to
save all of these people, and try to take them to the eternal land. That
is what we call the Kingdom of God, God's Kingdom in the Bible, not for
our further evolution, but for our spiritual evolution and the physical
evolution. These messages are true, and that is why it is in personally
we bear this light on these messages."
Timothy Oliver: "By what means will God take these people to
Richard Liu: "Since God is omnipotent, God has the great power,
He will send innumerable flying craft, or if you people can call them flying
saucers, to the earth to save people from the great tribulation of annihilation.
That is why God has to come earlier, in order to make the preparation for
the coming of the great tribulation.
Timothy Oliver: "Will these craft be visible to the naked human
Richard Liu: "Yes, these flying craft can be seen with our, with
human naked eyes, and they shall start to go abroad to save all the living
beings from tribulation starting from the 1st of April."
Timothy Oliver: "People will walk onto these ships in their physical
Richard Liu: "Yes, people can walk physically on to the flying
craft, and that is the reason why God has to appear physically, to tell
people that our physical body can also acquire eternal life, not just the
soul. It is also stated in the Bible that people should live to meet God,
to accept God's salvation as well as the justice.
James Walker: "I had a question; in several earlier interviews
Teacher Chen has said that if his message is wrong about March 31st
he's willing to suffer the death penalty and he alluded again he'll stake
his life on that. Exactly what does that mean-the death penalty-if the
March 31st [event] does not happen?"
Richard Liu: "Teacher Chen has no definite idea about the outcome,
but he said that he would put his life to, into the hands of people. It
is all up to people."
James Walker: "Is that a reference to maybe Deuteronomy 18 about
a false prophet being stoned by the people-being put to death?"
Richard Liu: "Yes, that means to be stoned to death or to be
crucified on the cross.
Reporter: "For being a false prophet?"
Richard Liu: "Yes."
Reporter: "The question really is, will he kill himself if nothing
Richard Liu: "No, definitely he will not. And it is also made
clear that it is all decided by people, not by himself."
Reporter: "What are you doing to prepare yourself for God's coming?
Are you restricting your food, are you doing certain things? I've heard
that you're travelling around the country going to various places where
there are lakes, and doing ceremonies, because those are going to be places
where God will land with the spaceships?"
There was some difficulty with the tape recorder at this point. Some
of the answer to the above question was lost.
Richard Liu: ".we have been to the North Pole, last year. People
might, people can gain a better understanding if they can remember the
movie Superman II. He was also bound to the North Pole, and we were also
instructed by God to go to the North Pole. People might wonder why more
than a hundred people have been following around by God's instruction,
going and travelling to the every part of the America. And we have to go,
and since August last year we have been instructed by God and following
God's instructions. God also sends us a lot of signs and also God writing
in the sky has convinced us of His existence as well as the truth of this
Reporter: "Would you explain the relationship between Teacher
Chen and God and how they communicate with each other?" And how far that
Richard Liu: "It is stated in the Bible that one should be sent
by God to prepare the way for the Lord, and actually we feel assume ourself
to be the one; Teacher Chen assume himself to be the one sent by God to
prepare the way for God's coming. There are several ways for Teacher Chen
to communicate with God. First, God will give the messages to Teacher Chen,
or God will talk to him, or other vision. God will give signs or give the
vision to him within his own soul. The second way is through this instrument,
that means the ring which he is holding in his hand. And in this ring God
will deposit His spiritual energy, God's power, in this ring. And this
ring also will give the vision to, or give the sign, to Teacher Chen, so
that he can see what you haven't, and what you're to do, according to the
sign or according to the vision. It is foreseeable that someday after God's
coming to the earth, this ring will become a flying craft in front of people.
And people can see it with their naked eyes."
Reporter: "So, that ring will turn into a flying craft, is that
right? That ring will become a flying craft?"
Richard Liu: "Yes, the ring as you view it, but it will be a
flying craft coming out of this ring. From the different dimension world.
And also it has to undergo a certain period of cultivation so that it can
become the holy item of God."
Reporter: "Mr. Liu, how did Mr. Chen get the ring? Where did
the ring come from?"
Richard Liu: "Teacher Chen was instructed to buy this ring. But
what matters, what the point is that this ring is chosen by God so that
God can send His Holy Spirit, and send His omnipotent power and deposit
the power into the ring. So that if it is worn by ordinary people, okay,
it becomes on his body ordinary ring.
Reporter: "Are Teacher Chen's-are all of his followers here on
their own free will?"
Richard Liu: "Of course everybody has his free will, since all
the airplane tickets and the passports are owned by each individual. We
don't have any control on that. Teacher Chen came to America last February.
All the students came to America different times since September or August
Reporter: "Why Garland, Texas?"
Richard Liu: "Because nine million years ago Garland is also
the place where God chosen to descend and to create human beings, human
races. And in this nine million years there have been six times of great
tribulation of annihilation happening on this earth. And for the last time,
the seventh time of the great tribulation of annihilation Garland will,
Garland be created also the place where God shall give the end to the great
tragedy of great tribulation. Every time-for every time of the great tribulation
which happen on this earth Garland is al-Garland has been the place for
the final, for the closing speech."
Timothy Oliver: "Richard, you and another gentleman are wearing
a rather distinctive belt and buckle. Is there any significance to that?
The gentleman over there.
Richard Liu: "These were instructed by God for us to wear. I
think these questions can be answered after God comes, after the God has
come to the earth."
Timothy Oliver: "So their purpose right now you will not reveal?"
Richard Liu: "No, not now."
James Walker: "If a flying saucer does not come on March 31st,
does Teacher Chen recommend that his followers disregard him and no longer
follow his teachings?"
Richard Liu: "Yes, of course. This is very reasonable. We have
been very reasonable in our teaching. Since all of the followers have been
following Teacher Chen for years, and it is not persua- it is not done
only by persuasion or by words. All the followers have seen, have been
convinced, all over the years by some signs or by some miracles performed
by God. For this month a sign performed by God's omnipotent power particularly
all the signs of God flying throughout in the sky have convinced all the
followers of what God is and what the people of God can do. Since God flying
throughout is changeable He is omnipotent, so the flying craft can turn
to be flying sauce [sic], or turn to be the airplane. That is why average
people sometimes cannot discern them. On average every other day we can
see with our eyes the performance of God's flying throughout in the sky.
And it doesn't have-the flying craft not only draw lines in the sky, but
also draw scriptures in the sky."
Reporter: "Can Teacher Chen just tell us a little bit about himself,
before he started receiving messages from God. Did he-is he a professional?
Did he train as a teacher, or what work did he do back in Taiwan before
he started hearing from God? How old is he?"
Richard Liu: "Mr. Chen was born in 1955, and before 1993 when
he got the message from God he had been associate professor in the college
Reporter: "So is he a professor of anything?"
Richard Liu: "Associate Professor of social science."
Reporter: "Teacher Chen, you've taught that before March 31st
there's going to be certain world events, like economic catastrophes in
Asia, and odd behavior with airplanes and so forth before the 31st.
Do you see any of those things happening? How do you interpret what you've
Richard Liu: "It is known that there have been several serious
air crash happening, especially in Taiwan. And actually it can be interpreted
on the one hand that the dimension of depression of the universe. And on
the other hand it is because all of the spiritual vitality, spiritual air,
which is needed for human beings is losing, is becoming lesser and lesser,
in the world so that people cannot keep themselves always sane."
Richard Liu: "Sane, uh, clear in mind. (Pause) The economic
crisis dating back to last June, but also the time when we were instructed
by God to do some services of praying trips around the United States and
on the one hand, because of our services, we can see now the deep, the
more serious effect of the El Nino can be lessened. Otherwise people have-people
might see that there would be more serious effect of the El Nino."
Reporter: "Is the year of any significance-the fact that it's
the year 2000 approaching, does that have any role to play in Teacher Chen's
Richard Liu: "God's operation of the universe or of the earth,
abides by the Karma which is generated by the earth itself. In other words
the timetable of the great tribulation of the earth is not-it's decided
by the Karma of the planet. When the time comes, the great tribulation
comes also, naturally. In the-after the six times of great tribulation
which happen, which have happened on the earth, after these tribulations
God exerted His great power to clean off the poisonous substances or the
radioactive rays, so that people can-so that the earth can be inhabitable
again. But for this final times of great tribulation the earth will become
inhabitable [sic] anymore, and in 2043 this earth planet will explode.
That is why God decide to come to the world in a year earlier, in order
to make a preparation to save all the survivors from the great tribulation,
to take people, all the survivors, away from the annihilation of the planet."
Reporter: "So people will leave all together, in next year, or
they'll start leaving this year?"
Richard Liu: "Yes, next year."
Reporter: "Any particular date?"
Richard Liu: "In September, in next year, people will be taken
away by God, will be sent, escorted away by God. And, but for this year,
it is instructed by God that people should do the physical cultiva-no,
the spiritual cultivation in order to break through the different dimension.
In September next year God's flying craft will all come down to the earth,
and each craft can accommodate a hundred-thousand people."
Reporter: "What do you have-what do people have to do in the
meantime to qualify or to be part of the groups that will leave. I mean
if you don't pay any attention over the next years, do you travel in the
craft as well, or do-does everyone have to (garbled) the spiritual cultivation?"
Richard Liu: "It shouldn't be worried about. After God comes
to the world everything will be instructed on the television, all through
the houses which people are living in. And God will give instruction to
every detail of the whole operation, so people shouldn't be too much worried
Reporter: "Richard, you had said at one time that the reason
why Mr. Chen chose Texas and the western hemisphere is that this was the
chosen land. What does that mean for people, family, loved ones, who are
left back in Taiwan? Will they also be part of this? Will they also be
Richard Liu: "We hope that this chance for the-this chance through
the mass media can tell all the people that if people are really come then,
that if the people have the true faith in God, and have the true repentance
in their heart, God will certainly help them to save all their relatives
or their beloved family from abroad. After God comes to the earth only
God's flying craft can fly over the oceans abroad to save all the people
or millions of people abroad."
Reporter: "Mr. Liu, can you say, what will you personally do,
on April the 1st, if nothing happens-will you sell your house
and go back to Taiwan, or will you stay in Garland, Texas? What will Teacher
Richard Liu: "I think I will come back, but not in-not the only,
uh, the only reason. Because I do believe that God is coming to the earth-I
definitely believe that God is coming to the earth. Since I have been joined
the group several years, I'm definitely convinced by the messages which
is received from God. Teacher Chen wants to repeat a point, that trying
to-uh, don't make the negative opposition, trying to think about what if
God comes to the earth-what should people do-because if God comes to the
earth that means the great tribulation is here, it happen. That means the
annihilation of the earth is going to happen."
Reporter: "Mr. Liu, let me ask another question. The Taiwanese
government has been concerned because there are families in Taiwan who've
asked that their-they feel that their family has been held captive, or
that they are being held against their will. Can you say and set the record
straight-ah, how do you answer that? Have you been in contact with the
Taiwanese government-are you cooperating with the Taiwanese government?
Have people been sent back, as a matter of fact?"
Richard Liu: "Hold off-one answer-"
Reporter: "Yes" (smiling).
Richard Liu: "Actually we haven't been contacting with the government
from Taiwan. And all those rumors have been clear, I think, by the government
in Taiwan, that we didn't keep anybody captive. If we did, we haven't bothered
by the government or even by the police in America. But then the rumor
can make clear by itself, we didn't do nothing wrong."
Reporter: "I understand that God will take the form of Teacher
Chen when he descends to earth? Is Teacher Chen an ordinary man who was
chosen by God to prepare His coming, or is Teacher Chen a prophet or does
he have a direct-has he always had a direct relationship with God, and
where does Teacher Chen fit into God's plan?"
Timothy Oliver: "Is he a manifestation of God?"
Richard Liu: "The whole operation of God, God's salvation, is
actually a very delicate plan. Teacher Chen says, Teacher Chen is here-but-but
the birth of he-uh, the birth of Teacher Chen, as it were, as his moving
from the East to here, is also a part of the plan."
Reporter: "(I've heard?) Jesus and Buddha have manifested themselves
here, either one or both, can you tell us about that?"
Richard Liu: "You mean the reincarnation?"
Reporter: "Yeah, yeah. Can you tell us about that?"
(Lost first part of answer turning over tape cassette.)
Richard Liu: ".And it is important to make this point clear that
we don't-we are not taking an advantage of telling people that they are
the reincarnation of Jesus Buddha-Jesus Christ and the Buddha. We don't
invite any support. We just give the message to the people in order that
people can be prepared together to welcome God's coming to the earth. And
they are-the reason why we gave the message about these two reincarnations
is not for people to worship. And we were born in the Orient, in the East,
because two-thousand years ago Jesus Christ has already told people-told
His disciples that, just as the lightening comes from the East to the West,
so shall the sons of men be. If people are interested in this message they
can turn to twenty-four chapter of Saint Matthew in the Bible, concerning
about the times which were his message of His coming again."
Timothy Oliver: "On March 31st, will we be able to
see both God and Teacher Chen side by side as two separate individuals?"
Richard Liu: "Yes."
Reporter: "How do we know which one is which?"
Richard Liu: "It is very easy to distinguish since God can go
through different dimensions. He can go through even the wall. Disappear
and appear again. On the other hand, God can speak very fluently any kind
of language on the earth. And God is also younger."
Reporter: "But He looks the same. But He's younger."
Richard Liu: "He looks the same. Since every part of His body
is immortal, also. People can see, especially on the television, that God
has a sense of humor and full of love in His teaching."
Reporter: "But so does Teacher Chen."
Richard Liu: "Yeah, we think so (smiling.laughter all around).
And the most important thing is that the God which all of us believe (garbled)
we don't mean we, but everyone believes in, will not put any people for
trial. Please remember that God comes to the earth to save people, not
to judge people."
Reporter: "Would you say all together how many followers are
here with you at the moment?"
Richard Liu: "There are around a hundred-fifty, but we don't
have any exact number of the followers since we are not a very organized
group, everybody can come and go, we are an open group, and we don't have
the exact calculation of how many people we have here."
Timothy Oliver: "Does Teacher Chen acknowledge that Jesus Christ
who appeared in Palestine about two-thousand years ago was a manifestation
of God or God incarnate? Does he believe that, or teach that?"
Richard Liu: "There is no difference between the Son, the Holy
Son, and the Holy Father. In other words the Holy Father and the Holy Son
are one. But God is God, and the Son of Man is the Son of Man. They are
not the same."
Timothy Oliver: "That Jesus had very severe words to say to various
groups of people like the Pharisees and the Sadducees. He did judge them.
How do you explain the difference between God judging people then and not
judging people now."
Richard Liu: "Okay, I'll ask Teacher Chen, but I want to clear
the viewpoint, there isn't a word of judgment in the Bible concerning the
Pharisees. Jesus just find the fault with those Pharisees. Teacher Chen
says Jesus Christ tell people that all those Pharisees are just trying
to gain the profit from ordinary people. But we don't get any profit, and
we don't collect any money or donations from people. Particularly those
people in religious field, the established, uh, what we call the established
profit-gainers, especially in the religious circles, they have already
established their position-they even don't hold that God will come into
the earth-because they are somewhat afraid of Him, because they are taking
an advantage of God."
Timothy Oliver: "Will God judge them as He did before, and Jesus
judging the Pharisees?"
Richard Liu: "No, God won't judge them. The only hope from God
is that they can be repentant. And God is perfect and full of love. He
will give them chances to do the right. God will not do the judgment on
those people, since here is a very important notion-every living being
on the earth was actually extracted from the dirt by God. That means God
devote His spiritual life into the making of human beings from the dirt,
and God is full of love. He is just like parents. He is just like parents
to every living being, so He won't put any of His children to the trial,
to the judgment. But on the other hand human beings have to be responsible
for what they have done, for all the crimes and things they have committed."
Reporter: "Do the two children speak English?"
Richard Liu: "No. They're not-"
Reporter: "How do you explain the jewelry that's on their fingers?"
Richard Liu: "It is the message of-the message and the instruction
for them to wear the jewelry were instructed-were received only in this
year. Since God asked them to wear this jewelry to help them to cultivate
their physical bodies to become immortal. Everyone of you shall wear this
kind of jewelry in the future, but for those poor people God will give-God
will provide this necessary jewelry for each person."
Reporter: "What type of jewelry is it? Can I see it?"
Richard Liu: "They are ordinary diamond-diamonds."
Reporter: "Which one is.(garbled).
Another Reporter: "How does the jewelry."
Richard Liu: "This jewelry, these diamonds are very basic element
in order to form a universe, in order to form a planet. And before God
create the universe, these, all these jewelry, all these elements have
been already deposited in the formation of the earth, in preparation for
the ending period of the earth. For those poor who couldn't afford this
jewelry, God will give them this jewelry for them to wear, in the present."
James Walker: "Will God come right here, at this address right
here, visibly, at what time on March 31st?"
Richard Liu: "At ten o'clock."
James Walker: "Ten o'clock, right here."
(Richard Liu, introducing two children) "This is the reincarnation
of Jesus Christ-"
Several Reporters: "The other one." "Which one?"
(Richard Liu, pointing) "This one."
Reporter: "The older one?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah, and he-"
Reporter: "How old is he?
Richard Liu: "He is eleven years old."
Reporter: "His name is?"
Several people talking at once-unintelligible.
Reporter: "And the other one is Buddha?"
Richard Liu: "This is the reincarnation of Buddha."
Reporter: "How old is he? Eight?"
Richard Liu: "Uh, eight years old."
Reporter: "Are they in school?"
Richard Liu: "Pardon?"
Reporter: "Are they going to school?"
Richard Liu: "No. No, we are here on business. We don't have
Reporter: "Are you on tourist visas?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah."
Timothy Oliver: "Do you suppose on March 31st God
could arrange to not have the trash picked up (general chuckles)
at ten o'clock?"
Richard Liu: (smiling) "Don't worry about that. At that
time there won't be any trash made by people.
Reporter: "Richard, I understand that the group has bought some
property and has buried some artifacts. What is the purpose of that if
there is going to be annihilation and if people are going to be leaving
this earth as we know it, why go to the trouble of burying things?"
Timothy Oliver: "Especially if the earth's going to explode."
Richard Liu: "That is to pave the way for the next generation
of people on the earth. Because a hundred-thousand-a hundred-million years
later there will be a new generation of human beings living on the planet."
Reporter: "But didn't you say-?"
Richard Liu: "A hundred-million years later."
Reporter: "Didn't you say the earth was going to explode?"
Timothy Oliver: "In 2043."
Richard Liu: "After the, uh-in 2043 the gases will explode. And
the gasses will slip out into microcosms of galaxies, the number of them
is ten to the power of seven. And those galaxies belong to the living beings
of second dimension world. Just like in .(garbled) just like it
all in the newspapers. Now the planet going around the Jupiter, whose name
is Europe is proved to have the ocean, and also Americans is trying to
send some submarines to probe into the ocean to see whether there is kind
of life or not. And there is a report on the newspapers talking about the
discovery of the Europe, the planet Europe is going around Jupiter. And
the situation.uh, it is very hard to.since there are some technical terms
Reporter: "Sure. But, but, eventually, the earth will explode,
and then be rebuilt, or-?"
Richard Liu: "The whole galaxy will explode, and break down into
more galaxies, which belong to the second dimension world."
Reporter: "And then we'll have another-"
Richard Liu: "Then there will be new living generation again,
on those galaxies."
Reporter: "And the second dimension, what is it?"
Richard Liu: "We are ordinary people living in three dimensional
world, and have to let three dimensional world slip down into the second
dimensional world. It is also discovered that there is a sign of water
on the moon. Actually that is the preparation made by God for the next
generation of the living beings."
Reporter: "How do you keep in touch with what's going on, and
with the news-have you got TV or do you-are you on the Internet, or-"
Richard Liu: "Newspapers."
Reporter: "Newspapers. From where? I mean Teacher Chen doesn't
speak English. Do you read them to him, or.?"
Richard Liu: "Teacher Chen says that God will direct Teacher
Chen when and where to get the information. This has something to do with
the general plan of God's creation of the whole universe."
James Walker: "Richard, there's a warning about a retribution
if a non-vegetarian comes on to the property. What would happen, or what
kind of retribution.?"
Richard Liu: "There's a karmic retribution."
James Walker: "Okay, which means?"
Richard Liu: "Since God-since the power of the Holy Spirit of
God is pure, and if people eat not vegetarian, that means it is meat of,
it is the meat, it is the meat of the other, the other a-other life-another
sense his body is not pure. When he get into the house of God then he will
feel very uncomfortable. But the retribution doesn't break out instantly.
It will happen several days before God coming to the earth."
James Walker: "It's just an uncomfortable feeling, is all that
would happen to you, negative, or is there some worse kind of retribution?"
Richard Liu: "Teacher Chen says that the retribution will break
out on several days before God comes, before March 31st. We
advise people not to eat meat, because when God is coming to the earth
any kind of life enjoys equality, 'cause every life was created by God.
On March 31st when God comes we will-even animals such as ducks,
chickens or dog can even talk to human beings."
Richard Liu: "Talk."
Reporter: "What all is 'in'-ducks and."
Richard Liu: "Dogs."
Richard Liu: "Chickens, any kind of animal. On the other hand
you cannot eat-you cannot eating the meat of a dog and talking to him at
the same time.
James Walker: "So this will be several days before March 31st?"
Richard Liu: "Before March the 31st.
Timothy Oliver: "The retribution?"
James Walker: "No, I'm talking about talking to animals; what
day will that be?"
Reporter: "Now will they speak to us in English, or will we bark
at the dogs, or just how does that work?"
Richard Liu: "If you eat a duck and you-if you eat a chicken
in your stomach-suppose it talks in your stomach. What will you feel?"
Another REPORTER: "Sorry, can you (asked of Richard Liu)
just say a little about yourself, what did you do before you, before you
came to America?"
Richard Liu: "Pardon?"
Reporter: "What did you do before you came to America? What was
Richard Liu: "I am a teaching university-"
Reporter: "A teaching un-what did you teach?"
Richard Liu: "Literature."
Reporter: "Can I just ask, I mean there's obviously quite a lot
of money connected with some of you. You're wearing this very expensive
jewelry, and you've got two very nice watches on. Where does the money
Richard Liu: "Actually we-"
Reporter: "You're just a university teacher, you're not rich,
I don't suppose."
Richard Liu: "Every member is support-every member support themselves
in our group. And we sold our houses and bring our living here. And if
we sell a house back in Taiwan and bring the money here we can buy several
houses here. The houses here is actually very cheap."
Reporter: "How many did you buy? I mean, did the group buy in
Richard Liu: "It is estimated about thirty, now, but we are not
Timothy Oliver: "If one of us wanted to join your group, what
would we have to do?"
Richard Liu: "There is no need for anyone to join the group cause
everybody here is children of God. What matters is to stay at home doing
some spiritual repentance in preparation for God's coming, waiting for
Reporter: "Mr. Liu, would y'all be welcomed back in Taiwan, now,
if by any chance that you wanted to just, you know, after the 31st,
would you be welcomed back in Taiwan? Could you go back? The media has,
has written a lot of stories about you. Could you and your family just
go back and pick up where you left off?"
Richard Liu: "Yes. Yes, I haven't thought about that because
I believe that God is coming-"
James Walker: "Taiwan will be destroyed in ninet-next year anyway,
Richard Liu: "Yes. Yes. Not just Taiwan. The great tribulation
is all over the earth."
Reporter: "If God doesn't appear on March 31st, does
that mean that none of the rest is true, that the great tribulation won't
happen, or will you continue to believe in the ideas but assume a different
Richard Liu: "Yes, if God didn't come to the earth that mean
the great tribulation wouldn't happen-"
Reporter: "It does mean that-so its all-it would-if that's wrong
it's all wrong."
Richard Liu: "Yeah."
Reporter: "Well if He appears on-if he doesn't appear on television
though, will you stop waiting for Him?"
Liu conferring with Chen.
James Walker: "Is that cable channel 18, or broadcast 18."
Richard Liu: "Channel 18 is cable?"
James Walker: "Cable or broadcast?"
Richard Liu: "Channel 18 is." (Liu seems confused. Chen speaks
to him). "Actually, on March 25th there won't be any channel
which can be received by the television set, because God's power will send
His own program into every channel. So they will-"
Reporter: "Oh, so its every channel."
Richard Liu: "Huh? Channel 18, that is God's program, not God's
Reporter: "So if it doesn't-but does that-that just does not
happen on the 25th, then you will not expect Him to come on
Richard Liu: "No, we won't wait. No we won't."
Reporter: "So what-(garbled) explain to me this in a little
bit more detail, what will happen on the 25th, at 0.00 hours
on the 25th, what will we see on the TV? How will God show His
Richard Liu: "At first people can see the picture of the neighborhood
on their television. Then there will be the captions advertising God coming
down March 31st. And from 25th through March 31st
God's program will teach people how to do and what to do in preparation
for the day, March the 31st."
Reporter: "Are you involved, and is this group involved in the
organization of that television program? Or is it just God's work?"
Richard Liu: "It is just God's work. And of course God will arrange
some movies, some programs, to keep some people entertainment. Just in
case people might be bored (smiles)."
Reporter: "I kind of arrived late on this. Are you saying that
if He doesn't come out on the 25th-"
Richard Liu: "On the television."
Reporter: "On the 25th, that you will not wait till
the 31st-that it's over after that? Can you explain that to
Richard Liu: "If God doesn't appear on television on March 25th,
then we won't be waiting here, we won't be waiting any longer."
Reporter: "What will you do then?"
Richard Liu: "Then the group will be dismissed. They will be
dismissed; everybody can-some people might go back to Taiwan, while some
others might have already intended to continue further studies-to go on
studying in, you know, America."
Reporter: "And what will he [Chen] do after that if that doesn't
Richard Liu: "Teacher Chen says that he will put his-he will
put himself at the disposal of all the people."
Reporter: "In the group, or outside?"
Richard Liu: "On the outside. For us to do."
Reporter: "How do you express your religious view of faith as
a religious group in these days? I mean, do you pray, do you just sit around
and discuss plans, or how do you express your faith in these days, as a
Richard Liu: "No, we don't consider ourselves any special religious
group. We just follow God's instructions. Teacher Chen wants to take in
several for example he just received a message and he just try to help
people understand the message then they make preparation for God's coming."
Reporter: "So what do you-the members of your group-what are
they doing in these days, and when you wake up in the morning, what do
you do during the course of the day." (garbled).
Richard Liu: "Now we are just like ordinary-the average people.
We are just like ordinary average people. Ah, we do the spiritual repentance,
and do some jobs in preparation for God's coming. And also, we give ourselves
to review of all the message or of the lessons concerning the cosmology,
uh, the lessons from the message from God. We give ourselves a review of
all those lessons."
Timothy Oliver: "How do you define spiritual repentance?"
Richard Liu: "It is nothing different from the ordinary religions.
We just do the repentance to reflect ourselves to see what kind of defect
we have, and how to correct with the friends."
Timothy Oliver: "You evaluate your effect?. I'm not understanding
Reporter: "Its defects."
Timothy Oliver: "Oh, defects. Okay."
Reporter: "On the spacecraft, will animals be allowed on the
spacecraft too, and also you said it takes you to the Kingdom of God. I
presume because we keep our spiritual form that it's a physical place.
Would that be another planet, or what would it be?"
Richard Liu: "The animals are all allowed into the spaceships.
And we will."
Reporter: "Like Noah's ark?"
Richard Liu: "Yes" (smiling).
Reporter: "Sorry, just finish off that question. The other part
of the question was whether it takes us to a physical place, whether it's
another planet, or what?"
Richard Liu: "There is another physical planet which is-we call
the Kingdom of God."
Reporter: "Through the ring, or through however Teacher Chen
communicates with God, is there any indication of what that planet looks
like? Does it have vegetation, is it-does it look like what the images
we see from the moon, or is it like earth, or."
Richard Liu: "It is another planet, but the difference is that
in this planet [the earth] every thing, every material thing will degenerate,
will corrupt, will see dissolve. But in the Kingdom of God every thing
will acquire eternity. It won't dissolve. In other words, we are living
in a material universe, but the eternal Kingdom of God is actually anti-material
Timothy Oliver: "Fourth dimension?"
Richard Liu: "Pardon?"
Timothy Oliver: "Fourth dimension?"
Richard Liu: "It is a universe starting from fourth dimension,
fifth dimension, and higher."
Timothy Oliver: "How many dimensions does it go, how far, how
Richard Liu: "It goes to the eighteenth dimensional world. But
these dimensional, these eighteen dimensional worlds are for living beings.
But over the eighteenth dimension worlds there are higher dimensions."
Timothy Oliver: "And who goes there?"
Richard Liu: "It belongs to the eternal world of God. And as
a matter of fact, all those dimensional worlds over sixth dimensional world
belong to the God's eternal world."
Reporter: "Can you tell us a little more detail exactly how things
are going to start out at 10 AM on March 31st. Will the first
thing that happens be a flying saucer coming down, or-."
Richard Liu: "No, I think that is a misunderstanding. We didn't
say that on March 31st there will be flying saucer. We said
that when the great tribulation comes there will be the flying saucer."
Reporter: "So what will happen at 10 AM exactly?"
Richard Liu: "The people really want to insist that the flying
saucer will come down to the earth. Actually, the flying saucer of God
flying will be actually be sent-has descended already, on the earth, but
people cannot see it."
At this point Mr. Chen appeared to be receiving a message from
Richard Liu: "If you are interested Teacher Chen would like to
meet you, into, uh.to see something."
At this point Chen and Liu led the reporters around the side of the
house to see the spaceship in the back yard, passing through a gate with
another of the warning signs prohibiting non-vegetarians from the premises
on pain of "retribution."
In the back yard there was a man rocking/hopping back and forth from
foot to foot about ten paces in front of an octagonal gazebo. Seven crosses
were built into its sides and visible from the inside, but covered by large
wooden disks on the outside. Inside the gazebo were two crouched lion statues,
sundry foodstuffs: fruits and vegetables, crackers, cookies, bread and
several cases of Coca-Cola. Also a pair of crutches, a table, ornate dishes,
bowls, golden pitcher, silver platter and service, three chairs, and resting
on one chair, a large golden oriental crown.
About ten paces to the west, lying on the ground, two stylized crosses
framed a large poster, made of computer printed, white, 8 ½ x 11
sheets and a blue border. The poster read, "WHY NAILING THE HOLY SON OF
GOD - JESUS CHRIST - ON THE CROSS!"
About seven paces further to the west was the visible/invisible spaceship,
complete with wooden deck, cinder blocks, rubber tires, pole lanterns,
captain's chair and a still crated barbecue where one might expect the
control panel. Click here to see a photograph.
Richard Liu: "This may look like just ordinary gazebo, but we
call them Heavenly-the Crown of Heaven gazebo. And there are seven crosses
surrounding this gazebo. This gazebo serves as place to conquer the physical
body and the mind of people. It is also a virtue of the mass media, since
you have the picture of this gazebo, if people suffering from serious illness,
or incurable illness, can make their clipping of the picture of this gazebo,
and put the picture on the breast of his own body, and try to believe in
the-in the-try to keep the true faith in God. Then the power-God's Holy
Spirit, will come into his body and make him to recover from his illness.
So in ordinary people's eyepoint this is nothing but an ordinary gazebo.
And, but, anyone who is capable of supernatural sensibility can come to
here, and they can feel the supernatural power here. They can feel the
omnipotent power of the Holy-from the Holy Spirit of God. But it is also
devised that if those people with supernatural sensibility coming here-try
not to challenge it-try not to challenge the power-try not to challenge
power from God; otherwise it will incur the retribution on himself. Try
to remember that this earth is a holy train for God's Holy Spirit to cure,
to comfort human beings; main power is where the physical illness."
Timothy Oliver: "What retribution do you speak of, if they challenge
the spiritual power here? You say they will receive retribution. But earlier,
you said God would not judge. So, who's going to deal out the retribution?"
Richard Liu: "That means if people in-if a person has the bad
intention-ill-intention, when he comes here, his ill-intention will be
conflicting with the great love of God, so that he will make the force
of the ill-intention bouncing back upon himself. It be just like physical
science-if you urge a force on to something, someday the force will come
back to you self."
Timothy Oliver: "Karma."
Richard Liu: "Karmic retribution."
Reporter: "Can you explain to us the things that are inside?"
Richard Liu: "All these things, all these items, have already
life. They are here to receive the salvation from God, so that they can
also give of the message of eternal life to-give out the message to all
around about God's salvation."
Timothy Oliver: "Even the Coke."
Richard Liu: "Pardon."
Timothy Oliver: "Even the Coke."
Richard Liu: "Yes. For example, the apple, the Coke, or these
two, these two, what we say the Sacred Lions. They will give the message
of eternal-the message of God's salvation and eternal to all those items,
to all those, or all of animals, or apples or anything around. You can
see that we have only a few of the crutches. They will give out the message
to all those handicapped people."
Reporter: "Richard, is it up to this place to bring people, or
its very existence will help cure sick people?"
Richard Liu: "The mere existence of the gazebo can exert the
power of the Holy Spirit from God, and people can just-Teacher Chen wants
to say that it is the merit of the mass media, since you put the picture,
you print the picture on the newspapers, people can cut down their news-cut
down the picture, and, or you can just make a frame. Frame the picture
and put it on the breast; it will give the effects of the Holy Spirit.
But it is not-it is not used for sa-it is not used for commercial sale.
That means only the free copy of the picture can give this kind of holy
Reporter: "Who built this?"
While Chen and Liu conferred, a the horn of a car on the parking
pad, apparently tied into the vehicle's security system, started honking
short recurring blasts.
Richard Liu: "It is built according to God's instruction."
Reporter: "But who built it; who physically built it? The group?"
Richard Liu: "It was bought, according to God's instructions,
and we just bought it here, and invite the Holy Spirit from God's, inside
Reporter: "So you bought the frame, and then put up the crosses?"
Richard Liu: "Yes."
Reporter: "So the food-so the food is blessed."
Richard Liu: "Yes."
Reporter: "So if somebody consumes the food, they will-"
Richard Liu: "No."
Reporter: "They don't cons-this food will not be consumed?"
Richard Liu: "No. They are not to be consumed, because they have
already life. They are here to try to give the message. These, they have
already life. They give the message around to ev-to ev-to if they-the apple
can give the message around to all the apples who seek about the information
of God's coming and God's salvation and eternal life."
Reporter: "How do they give that message?"
Richard Liu: "Pardon?"
Reporter: "How does the apples give the sign?"
Timothy Oliver: "To other apples?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah, they got the."
Some of the answer is missing due to changing the cassette tape.
Richard Liu: "After God comes to the world, comes to the earth
(unintelligible) is filled with rivers of wisdom (unintelligible)."
Group moves over from gazebo to the flying craft.
Richard Liu: ".instructed by God. And if you-you can take it
as an invisible flying craft of God."
Reporter: "Is this where God's gonna land?"
Richard Liu: "No, since God can go through any place in the world,
this is not a (unintelligible), this is only one of the one part of God's
plan. But we don't have any detail as dimension, as (unintelligible)."
Reporter: "Then-so you're saying this is an example of the flying
craft? What is this going to be? What is this?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah, this is-"
Reporter: "What is this?"
Richard Liu: "This is, ah, flying travel God, in the invisible
Timothy Oliver: "And this holds 100,000 physical beings?"
Richard Liu: "In the future it can magnify itself since God's
flying craft is changeable. It can become larger or smaller."
Reporter: "But this is only a representation; this is not what
its actually gonna look like, right?"
Richard Liu: "No, this is not a representating [sic];
this is it exactly. But it is in the invisible plane-invisible world. You
can say that it exists in the-since we have been accustomed to the three
dimensional world, we cannot see the invisible things in the fourth dimensional
world, fifth dimension. But this is the actually, uh, Holy flying craft
belonging to God in the fifth or in the fourth or in the fifth dimensional
Timothy Oliver: "Earlier you said we would be able to walk onto
these craft in our physical bodies-"
Richard Liu: "Yeah."
Timothy Oliver: "-and they would hold a hundred-thousand people.
Will we be able to see it at that time, that it is a ship, instead of being
Richard Liu: "Yes, still it is physically seeable. You can see
Timothy Oliver: "At that time."
James Walker: "A question. Is that a crown on the chair over
Richard Liu: "Yes."
James Walker: "Who'd wear that?"
Richard Liu: "It is God's crown. It is for God's holy operation."
Timothy Oliver: "When He comes, He will wear that?"
Richard Liu: "No, God will wear this kind of hat [indicating
Chen's]. And God's crown-the crown which God will wear is also changeable."
Reporter: "Why did, um-is there an explanation on why God chose
him [Chen] to be the messenger for all this?"
Richard Liu: "Well we have gone through the-"
Reporter: "I'm, I'm new through the whole deal, I'm sorry about
that. I just got here.
Richard Liu: "I'll just-yeah, hold on."
Timothy Oliver: "Him instead of someone else."
Reporter: "Yeah, I apologize, I haven't been."
Richard Liu: "Every detail is planned by God Himself. If you
want a very satisfactory explanation maybe when Comforter comes to the
world you people can ask God Himself. And since Teacher Chen bet his life
on message of God's coming to the world, because it is the truth, it is
true message from God. Not why is asked by God to bear this light and the
Reporter: "Can you tell us about this?" (pointing to cross
framed poster on ground).
Richard Liu: "This serve as a-this serves to make those people
to, to reflect themselves, especially those people who nailed Jesus Christ
on the cross 2000 years ago. They are also reincarnated. And it serves
to also-it serves also in the hope that in the next earth generation, the
tragedy of the crucification [sic] of Jesus Christ won't happen
Reporter: "So that's a reminder?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah, a reminder."
Reporter: "Not to do what we did before."
Richard Liu: "Yes."
Reporter: "Could you say it's a warning?"
Richard Liu: "A reminder."
Reporter: "So what role will these structures play on March 31st?
Will you gather onto here?" [Points to the invisible craft].
Richard Liu: "No, so far we haven't received any message or instructions
Reporter: "So you don't know if you'll be sitting on the chairs."
Richard Liu: "No, no, no."
Reporter: "No? You may, you just don't know yet?"
Richard Liu: "We still don't know yet."
The Press Conference had by now become quite informal; only a half
dozen of us were still around Chen and Liu. Other reporters were talking
with a few of the other group members, some video cams wandering around.
Conversation was waning, meandering; turned off recorder briefly. Attention
turned to a shallow pool few had previously noticed, asking about its significance,
Timothy Oliver: "Do you do baptisms in it?"
Richard Liu: "Pardon?"
Timothy Oliver: "Do you perform baptisms in it?"
Richard Liu: "Yes. Yeah, you can say that. It is for baptism."
Timothy Oliver: "Spiritual cleansing?"
Richard Liu: "Yes. The baptism of the Holy Soul-Holy Spirit."
Reporter: (pointing to object on "holy flying craft's" deck)
"Is that a barbecue grill on that?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah."
Reporter: "And do you know why? Did God command it?"
Richard Liu: "No," (laughing).
Reporter: "Then why is it there?"
Richard Liu: It is, or serves as a function in the spiritual
world, to tell all those animals that they are not going to be barbecued
anymore." (smiling). And all those barbecued animals can all-are
also be-are also told, they can acquire eternal life, just like human beings.
In other words, it serves to comfort, comfort the animals soul and body."
Timothy Oliver: "Plant life also has life; we speak of it as
plant life. Why is it okay to eat plant life, but not okay to eat meat
Richard Liu: "This-we are living in a three-dimensional material
world, and we have to eat of, uh, vegetable life. But as soon as we eat
the vegetable life-I think that is-uh, that is-a reluctant. That is not,
uh-that is unavoidable situation. We have to eat the vegetable life. But
as soon as people eat a vegetable life God will keep reform them into a
higher level of existence."
Timothy Oliver: "So you look to the day when you won't eat anything
that has life, because you'll be immortal?"
Richard Liu: "Yes. Yes. Because we are living in the three-dimensional
material world we have no choice but to, to eat, in order to keep our physical
body, our soul, to evolve continually. So we have to take some vegetables.
Close to a minute of unintelligible voices, camera sounds, etc.
Richard Liu: (again explaining poster on the ground) "God
hope that in the next regeneration when His Holy Son was sent by God to
save people, and Holy Son of God won't be crucified by people again. So
that a tragedy can be avoided. It is really expected that this kind of
tragedy won't happen again, in the further evolution generation. This won't-this
kind of tragedy won't happen again."
Reporter: "Do you know why God asked for the tires you've put
Richard Liu: "He will answer you later on for this."
Gap in the tape.
Richard Liu: ".they answer to their function in the flying craft.
They have the same functions with the same function, or the similar function
to the flying craft of God."
Reporter: "The tires?"
Richard Liu: "The tires."
Reporter: "And how so?"
Timothy Oliver: "A means of mobility?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah. One is mobility and, uh. (after commotion
of some kind) Yes, you could say that it is a kind of mobility, but
actually, uh, each tire represent a flying craft of God."
Another Reporter: "Do you know when they'll be activated?"
Previous Reporter: "Richard, is the number five significant
symbolically, and the numbers, ah, eight." (There were five tires and
eight pole lanterns.)
Richard Liu: "Eight is a number symbolizes stability, and since
God is coming to the earth. On the other hand God will duplicate and turn
into eight to operate at the ability of the universe, of the new world,
which God has brought us."
Timothy Oliver: "Is there a reason why those two colors [poles,
flanking the lone chair] are white and the rest [of the poles at
the octagonal angles] are black?"
Richard Liu: "The light means they can-they serve as illumination.
They can have the function of illumination to give the enlightenment to
the eight beings. And those two bigger lights [on the white poles] symbolizes
that the guardian, somewhat of a body guardian, accompany God's descending."
Reporter: "So these lights, and those as well up there help aid
Richard Liu: And the number of those lanterns are seven; that
means there are seven times of great tribulation on this earth."
Reporter: "And seven times of salvation."
Richard Liu: "Yes."
Reporter: "Could you tell us about the pool?"
Richard Liu: "Yes, Teacher Chen says that you could say it is
Reporter: "Is that all?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah, it serves a function of God for the baptism
with Holy Spirit."
Reporter: "Has everybody in the group been baptized in that pool
Richard Liu: "No-" (Here Chen somewhat excitedly pointed to
airplane in the sky broke in loudly; Liu translated). Take this airplane
for example. You can see that-whether human beings have this kind, this
model of airplanes or not. You can check that, whether it belongs to the
human airplanes, or belonging to the other dimension."
Reporter: "Oh, 'cause that one might belong to the other dimension?"
Richard Liu: "Yeah. It can go through different dimension of
worlds. And in the future when great tribulation happens God will send
this kind of aircraft to go to the overseas, to save all those survivors,
who are in the great tribulation."
Timothy Oliver: "I have seen airplanes like that many times at
various airports-lots of them."
Richard Liu: "Yeah, but the, the God's, the opening has a very
delicate structure around in the middle part, in the belly part of the
airplane. And it is different from the pattern, from the model you just
mention. Can ordinary airplanes make their airplanes flying over here every
two minutes? Every two minutes we have been see-we have been witness, every
two or one minute there have planes were flying over the sky here. Every
Timothy Oliver: "The same plane?"
Richard Liu: "The same plane"
Timothy Oliver: "How-?"
Richard Liu: "Different plane. It just flying over one by one."
Timothy Oliver: "That's plausible."
Richard Liu: "It is plausible?"
Timothy Oliver: "Yes."
Richard Liu: (softly) "okay. How could it-"
Timothy Oliver: "There's an airport not far from here."
Richard Liu: (again, softly) "Oh."
Reporter: "What was distinctive about that plane?"
Richard Liu: "After the great tribula-when the great tribulation
Reporter: "But that plane that he just saw, what was distinctive
Richard Liu: "It has a very special, in the belly, in the belly,
the (unintelligible) which is different. Every one minute? Can human
beings make airplanes flying over every one minute?
Timothy Oliver: "Different airplanes." (nodding)
Richard Liu: "This has been pattern."
Timothy Oliver: (quietly, aside) "We need a good snow
storm at DFW."
Timothy Oliver: "Thank you very much!" (shakes hands with
Liu, Chen; others follow suite; interview over).